Ciao!

Interesting posts. I agree somewhat with your views, but stating that 'that is that' and the matter should be forgotten is unpatriotic. I agree that the government has used the Anti-Chilean rhetoric as a constant blame for the government's own inability to create a better country. But the reason why the rhetoric is so permeated into the minds of a vast amount of people is because so many of them lack a good education. Its easy to steer ignorance with rhetoric.

First and foremost I believe the government should focus on the education of the people. Its a long term investment but it is really the only way I see that will definitely help Bolivia in the future. At the same time I wonder if the politicians in La Paz really want an educated population, one that would question in a positive manner what their government is doing and why. A population that would vote politicians in because they researched their stances, not because they are charming or 'look' like a good person. An educated society is the only way to curb corruption.

At the same time you can not forget that the Chilean treasury quadrupled in size with the revenues coming from the vast amounts of nitrates and copper found in the Litoral region. And ditto about Peru, who have hampered past attempts at regaining access to the sea.

I've lived in the U.S. all my life (since age 2) and really didn't care much about Bolivia, that is until I visited relatives in Cochabamba in 2001. I've learned to appreciate and love my homeland. At the same time I believe now is not the time to make any demands on anyone for access to the sea. Perhaps once Bolivia solves its own internal problems and becomes relatively prosperous and influential, then can we take any action for access to the sea. Maybe even by force in 100 years. ;-)

I think President Mesa, in this issue as well, has very good intentions, but no practical knowledge (of international relations). As I stated before in my blog, you ought to work the sea issue one step at a time and you need to keep good channels of communication if you press too much you might break a weak link and disrupt dialogues (we dont't wan that to happen). I must recognize we had to profit from the regional scenario presented by Monterrey and the support of influential political leaders, but I also must say that Mesa's declarations were out of agenda and Lago's response way out of control.

I agree with you Miguel that there is a smokescreen, but I think it's made up by the press and not deliberately made by the executive (it's very funny to see how the press made a 180° turn as soon as Mesa took power, casuality?, does anybody remeber how the press reacted with the former government?...).

I'm pretty sure Peru is not an obstacle to the sea, the treaty of 1904 states that Perú must agree to any Chilean territorial concessions involving "territory that was once peruvian" (near Arica). It will be very hard for Chile to give us back territory that was once our own because that would split Chile into two parts, that's why for practical reasons we have to work out a sovereign territory in the limits of Chile and Perú; because that terrytore was formerly peruvian, Perú must participate in such decission. President Toledo said in other words, "you guys work out a solution bilaterally and once you have it I'll do my best to rubber stamp it". The real obstacle is Chile that doesn't want to give up at least a strip of 10 Kms. of desertic territory.

Finally, I agree with Sergio, education is paramount, educated people have critical thinking and make informed decissions. Eventough we could in 10, 50 or 1000 years end up as a strong nation, and we could perhaps regain by force what was ours, I still think is not the way things should be resolved, that is why so much resentment
and anti chilean feelings among the elderly still persist. As Sergio stated we have to resolve our own internal problems and became prosperous, we have to understand that those tasks do not solely rely on the government, we all play an important role, we have to pay taxes, we have to work hard, we don't have to block and destroy our roads, we have to stop buying chilean products, we don't have to spend vacations in Arica (these 2 measures constitute a big pressure to Chile since Aric's and part of Iquique's population essentuially live of bolivian commerce and tourists.

Well, if provoking Chile in public settings allows Mesa to pass the measures he needs to keep the fiscal situation from spiraling out of control without turning everyone out onto the streets, or worse, I say, good plan!

The comment that thinking the sea is lost and "that is that" as "unpatriotic" is exactly the problem in Bolivia. Until people learn to realize that a good patriotic Bolivian can still think the sea is lost, we'll never progress on this issue. Patriotism isn't so one-dimensional.

How many other countries lost terrotitories over the course of history? And how many of them were valuable? What's the statute of limitations on giving territory back? We could set a dangerous precedent here. Pakistan & India? The Middle East? German territory lost in 1945? Polish territory lost at that time? Yugoslavia? Alsace-Lorraine? Where does it stop?

My point is this: History is cruel. But you have to make the best of it. Bolivia is a landlocked country, due to some sad historical events of a century ago. How do we move on from this w/o just rehashing centuries-old history?

I would think you could work something out with Peru in Tacna for access. That would surely piss off the Chileans. --scott

Miguel, I think the problem goes beyond practical reasons. I know other countries lost territory and their attitude towards that concern distinct political and historical contexts. I would say, it would be a very good precedent to resolve a territorial dispute in diplomatic arenas instead of arising a posibility of war or terrorism because of this situations (it sort of happened in the territories you mention, if not, if a country envolved ever get's the certainty of military superiority could it happen?).

Daniel:

I see you point. Unfortunately, it also raises the precedent that territorial disputes can be dredged up from the distant past. What statute of limitation do we want to put? There are already law suits against Spain for its role in the Conquest. Maybe a lawsuit by the descendants of Carthage against Rome for its treatment of their peoples in the Punic Wars? I'm being a bit frivolous here, but there's a point.

I hope the resolution is economic-political integration of the region and the slow erosion of the nation-state concept. That would make me much happier.

i think that Mr.Mesa is provoking to the Chilean Government for his demands, but it doesnot even works with the strong sovereignty-policy of
Mr.Lagos. i said it like a good chilean am i.
Bolivia will fail in the try. Mr. Mesa have a lot of troubles with the differents factions of the bolivian-policy and the smogwall is not working as well. the concept of the homeland of Mesa is worse than wrong,the pacific sea is not of Bolivians own, now its chilean homeland.
Meas is unpatriotic

I am chilean, and i am against giving bolivia acces to the sea.

When we fought in the pacific war, against both Peru and bolivia, our naval battles were with Peru alone!, in other words, BOLIVIA DIDNT EVEN HAVE A NAVAL FORCE!!!. bolivia withdrew quite rapidly from the war, they abandoned their sea to our hands without even giving a decent fight!.
Also, Bolivia actually started the war!!, by violating existing treateas (forgive my english)
at the time, and forcing chile to respond belically. Now bolivians blame chile for everything, 125 YEARS HAVE PASSED sinve they lost the war, and the war-hungry people of bolivia, though starving because of their political incompetence, once more provoke our anger by burning our flags in their streets.
this proves that bolivians are dishonest liars, cowards and ignorants in general. As i can see i these posts there are thinking bolivians, thank God.

long live chile and its beautiful sea

lol..alfonso..dont u mean BOLIVIAN SEA?
if i ever see a chilean flag i'll burn it after i wipe my ass with it. Even if Bolivia didnt have a naval force(though i think you should read a little more about history)the sea was ours and you stole it.
But whatever, i dont care about the sea no more...and i know many other people who think like me. The point is.....al diablo, metanse el mar por el culo
VIVA BOLIVIA CARAJO!!!!

I'm really sick of nationalists. On either side of the border.